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mickey_mouse

thanks for the predictions. your perdictions summarize the information i've read, but much more colorfully.

if a depression is coming, you really see it happening so quickly in an instant?

fugeguy

http://groups.yahoo. com/group/thelongemergency/

fugeguy

www. dailygazette. com/news/2008/dec/28/1228_yebooks/

congrats to Jim Kunstler

fugeguy

check out (remove the spaces)

www. dailygazette. com /news /2008 /dec/28 /1228_yebooks/

congrats to Jim Kunstler

Kris

Wow. This post blows my mind.

My wish for 2009 is that families take this whole mess seriously and plan accordingly.

From those I've talked with, all the bad news: layoffs, credit crisis, housing crisis, financial meltdown...are all isolated incidents.

I guess it won't seem "real" until something happens to shake one's own world.

I agree that families will move in together (amidst conflict, no doubt). A good-sized garden would definitely ease some tension.

The have's and have-not's will be be re-identified as the prepared and prepared-not's.

All this "green" talk is fun and technical...but "brown" is the term for the real deal, like living with the elements and being directly responsible for whether one eats.

I am truly scared for the day when reality comes calling to our community.

Normal people may begin snapping (like the one responsible for this year's Christmas Eve massacre). At the very least, theft will probably be more enticing to many than figuring out a legitimate way to find food.

I feel like the geopolitical scene possesses many variables we aren't privy to. I just hope for the best in the whole world arena.

We'll see.

Jim, you're an inspirational wordsmith--quite an artist.

Kris
Working hard at http://www.sccworlds.com

Gryphon

JHK,

You did a pretty good job of forecasting 2008 as I recall, so I don't think you'll be too far off the mark in 2009.

But I do have one prediction for you Jim. 2009 will be the year that you learn the difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism. Yes, cause and effect... indeed!

MaryW

Jim

I wondered when you were going to post your predictions for 2009 having just re-read yours for 2008.

You’re so right about people thinking that everything is just a temporary blip that will somehow be sorted out by governments everywhere. Perhaps scripts for Prozac will go through the roof this coming year as people can’t digest the truth.

It’s difficult to say whether Obama will have the guts to put the news out in all its ugliness, as he along with a lot of people may be gripped by disbelief and inertia. Rather than being pro-active he may end reacting to everything just that little bit too late. Your example of the highway upgrade instead of ploughing money into rail amply demonstrates the flawed thinking about doing what is fashionable politically rather than what is the most important.

The contraction of everything that we have known on the economic front may engender a more thoughtful, resourceful society but I don’t think it will come without a lot of disruption first. Indentured servitude may be the only means by which debt can be forgiven, returning many to third world lives and expectations. All the services we’ve taken for granted and as our due may end up fond memories –the health hazards from uncollected household waste may be the least of people’s worries. Home gardening has certainly ramped up here in the last year and is no longer considered nerdy.

Here’s a Matt Simmons’ flick where he states that demand hasn’t really dropped:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoGSC37t8TI

There was a letter in the paper the other week where it was put forward that in the future a dollar should be based on energy units, but this would require an earth shattering change in people’s attitude. Spot shortages, I think, will become the norm for most of the globe.

On the financial front, it’s unknowable what anything may be, the only certainty being a wild and crazy ride as rulers and financial whizz kids will try anything to keep papering over the cracks.

‘No more crybabies’ is a sound motto, or as we say here ‘Harden up, bitch!’

Schizoid

RE: "By the way, being allergic to conspiracy theories, I don't believe for a minute that there is some kind of shadow elite of "Bilderburgers" standing in the background to protect these grifters -- and I also believe the reason these paranoid notions persist is because it is otherwise hard to account for the extravagant irresponsibility of the Bush circle and its servelings."


Well, that's a load off my mind!

For a while there, I thought I could see a New World Order coming into view.

You know, the one that George H. W. Bush talked about in 1991.

michael mayberry

Thank you for your predictions. I don't agree about any significant rebound in energy prices. My prediction is $0.79/gallon gas in May 09.

I do agree that inflation is the most ominous specter of 2009.

I also don't know why railroad expansion would be so great, since no one has any idea what things are going to be like on the other side. I would much rather see a government program offering free gardening tools or free guns or free therapy as all would be much more flexible after things shake out.

thedoomletter

SunRock

So, we need trains running into the cities, where so many of the populace work. What are those “workers” producing? There are few, if any inner city factories. What are they doing there? Shuffling figures around on their keyboards and drinking coffee? Can’t they do the same damn thing in their homes? Isn’t it those same office workers who have been responsible for taking down our economy?

There is talk about our need for high speed trains. Haven’t they yet learned that there is no reason to get anywhere in a hurry? There is not a single person on earth that needs to get anywhere in a hurry, unless they need to get to a hospital for surgery, and a high speed train is not the way to go.

Where is Dave? I miss some of his bizarre humor, and shit.

prosemite

Until the last few days of the year, that is. I'm sure the ever-growing cohort of American anti-semites who send me emails will be tickled when I assert that the Hamas rocket attacks against Israel of recent days guaranteed a sharp response from Israel -- and now, of course, Hamas is playing the crybaby card: "... what'd we do to deserve this...?" Well, you fucking fired a bunch rockets into Israel. Did you ever hear of cause-and-effect?

I'm really disappointed in this rhetoric, especially coming from such an awesome writer.
Hamas' actions are inexcusable and it calls for a serious response, like you said "cause and effect"....however I don't see how air strikes from fighter jets into civilian targets would qualify as an equaled measured response. This is like a grown man using a baseball bat to defend himself against a 5 year old child armed with a toothpick. And to say that Hamas is playing the crybaby card is lame. The crying is coming from innocent victims that already suffer from the illegal occupation of their land. How many Israelis have been killed or injured from the rocket attacks? Now how many Palestinians have been killed or injured from Israel's response. Why don't you ever mention how much money and equipment and arms are given to Israel by the US? Why doesn't anyone ever discuss the odd fact that every president, congressman and senator from either side of the isle blindly states their loyal and undying support of Israel? Why is Iran the unstable nation that must not posses nuclear capabilities when the only nation to use such weapons just happens to be Israel's biggest arms supplier? And please don't try to label me an anti-semite, that defense is hollowed and begins to lose it's meaning when just thrown around to deflect critics.

George W

Thanks for the fine synthesis of many trends, as always. Few writers seem to see the whole picture.

Regarding cars, I understand that a typical car requires about 100 barrels of oil equivalent to manufacture. If it is a 25mpg car and lasts 100,000 miles, it uses about the same energy to build as to operate over its life. This doesn't count the considerable energy used to make cement and steel for the roads. So better mileage can't save the car culture.

Laura Louzader

Nothing can save what Kunstler refers to at the National Automobile Slum, but 50% of the population at least will be destroyed in the effort to do that.

I'm thinking specifically of the obscene amounts of money that have been allocated to subsidizing auto ownership and suburban sprawl for the past 60 years, and of the 3/4 of a trillion (at least) that Team Obama is shoveling at highways.

We could, with thought and re-arrangement of our lifestyles, live comfortable lives with a reasonable level of techno-amenity on a third the fuel we currently consume just to run the cars. I use only 120 KwH running my apartment, including my electric stove and all the appliances I want. I'm not depriving myself. I'm not extravagant, but I use what I want, and it strikes me as insane that we are willing to put our municipal sanitation and safety at risk just to make life possible for 4-car families living in burbs 40 miles out of the city.

But our efforts to keep the cars and malls running at all costs will starve our water and sewer infrastructure, our schools, our medical services, our power grid, and all the other technological props that contribute so much more to our lives than the 4-wheeled crap wagons that clutter our streets. The Hoover and other large dams are essential to the basic survival of a few cities and badly need to be restored because they have substantially silted up, yet the money and resources necessary for that are being shoveled into buildng and repaving highways.

We could take baby steps toward reducing the demand for transportation fuel. We could, for example, lower the speed limit to 55 mph nationwide and most of all we could raise the age limit for a driver's license to 18 nationwide and get the high school kids off the road. This would result not only in a steep drop in fuel usage for the tens of thousands of miles driven in aimless cruising on weekend nights, but could save the lives of countless teens, inasmuch as at least as many suburban kids are killed in car wrecks as ghetto kids by gunfire.

And if we don't want to toss more subsidies at railroads, especially for a badly run government-owned monopoly, we could level the playing field between airlines and railroads by canceling the airline subsidies and rolling back the monstrous regulatory strangulation and punitive taxation of passenger railroads, make it possible to turn a profit in passenger service. The heavy government support of the airlines plus the regulatory strangulation of the railroads is preventing the appropriate market response to the increasing demand for passenger rail service. Tens of thousands of travelers out here would eagerly move to the rails if only the service were there. Let's make it possible.

But we won't even do this much. We will divert money away from dams, levees, railroad infrastructure, public transit, medical care, and port facilities to squander it on auto infrastructure, sprawl development, and airlnes.

WagtheDog

JHK said: "By the way, being allergic to conspiracy theories, I don't believe for a minute that there is some kind of shadow elite of "Bilderburgers" standing in the background to protect these grifters --..."

I imagine that these grifters, now that they've served their intended purpose, have probably already been consigned by the Bilderburgers to the "useless eaters" category along with the rest of the peons.

Speaking of conspiracies though, check out this Youtube video and see what you think:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nc5_5IJek8

Ryan Crocker

As usual, some reasonable predictions here....some not so reasonable. Like Jim, I'm growing more concerned about serious inflation in the medium term. As banks hoard this bailout money, and excess reserves mount in the financial system, there will be great potential for a rapid expansion of the money supply once banks start lending again. Look out for the cheap money to rush into another asset bubble -- this time most likely in green tech & alt. E.

Defecit spending on dead end infrastructure like the highways, and related plans for hybrid vehicles are exactly as Jim says, efforts to sustain the unsustainable. I support an urgent transition to electrified rail transport for freight and passengers. It doesn't need to be high speed, it just needs to be electrified.

The Pickens natural gas replacement plan only works as an interim, temporary solution. It could buy us some time to scale down our economy and society in the way Jim suggests.

We shouldn't discount the importance of these temporary, band aid solutions just because they are unsustainable long term. They represent steps along a long path of energy descent. We didn't achieve this unprecedented peak of population and consumption overnight, and if we are lucky we won't descend from the peak overnight either.

True to form, Kunstler's prognostications are entertaining, but also hyperbolic and skewed toward his penchant for catastrophic drama. Dow Jones 4000? maybe 7000, but 4000 is doubtful. And if the dollar really does lose 60% of its value in a year, the entire world would have to find a new reserve currency -- again, very unlikely.

http://www.lifeboatcalledutopia.blogspot.com/

Arraya

Is it that when the Bildebergers meet you don't think they talk about world affairs? Or there is no such thing as Bildebergers?

Also, do you really think when Cheney was caught with maps of Iraqi oil fields in his secretive "Energy Task Force" meetings from 2000, he was NOT planning on going to Iraq?

David Mathews

This was an excellent post, Jim, except for all the neocon tripe regarding Israel, Hamas, and Iran.

Please do remember ... the neocons lost in November. Israel doesn't have a free hand nor a blank check.

As to the whole "cause-effect" argument ... both Israel and Hamas has bloody hands.

Worrying about Iran's potential nuclear weapons appears a bit premature ... by a decade at least, perhaps two!

But I will make some predictions:

1. The Peak Oil movement has run its course. The oil shill - global warming denier business isn't going to sell during an Obama administration.

2. The Oil Drum's best days are behind it ... see prediction #1.

3. I expect, anticipate and will sincerely enjoy hearing the oil industry whine, moan, and cry about the policies of the Obama administration.

4. The Dow might very well reach 4000 in 2009, but I am not at all satisfied until the Dow reaches zero and CNBC stops broadcasting.

5. I expect 2009 to be similar to 2008 in one respect: Filled with beauty ...

http://www.flickr.com/dmathew1

The sun will keep rising as our civilization is falling. Nature is going to reclaim those areas which humankind has abandoned. Expect grasslands and forests to begin reappearing in suburbia, malls, parking lots, industrial areas and along the coastline.

In other words: the end of civilization is a blessing and ought to be handled as such.

6. While it does seem possible that the Earth will flare up with one final global war, ultimately all of the war fighting equipment will run out of fuel and Nature will transform the sword into rust dust.

7. In the end, Nature wins and the Homo sapiens are extinct. This is the future that humankind has chosen for itself, and it is a fate well earned.

Of course, these predictions are for the years ahead ... not merely 2009.

ctonious

Great article. I especially liked his retort to the "brilliant" economist Tom Friedman, relating to his book "The World is Flat". A relative gave me this book, soon after it came out to gushing praise from the usual syndicated idiots, sent it all the way out to me here in Shanghai. I gave it to my housekeeper unread after reading the front flap, and told her if she could sell it on the street to the sidewalk booksellers, she could keep the proceeds. Hope she got more than what it's worth, which is it's paper value.

Quite frankly, though, dire as Kunstler sounds, I think he's an optimist. By themselves, the factors he mentions (credit contraction, derivatives unwind, liquidations, bankruptcies, foreclosures and layoffs) are enough to take us down for the count.

These factors are now participating in a self-reinforcing and absolutely vicious cycle, which will implode the US economy and government finances within the next several months. Most certainly in the US - and not too long after - here in Shanghai too. The delicate global infrastructure that is so highly dependent on the smooth functioning of both physical and financial transactions is being thrown into global and local disarray.

As an analogy, you could throw sand into a a Dutch windmill's gear cogs without too much degradation - but try that with a modern sealed precision reduction drive - and it's pretty much gone. Our economies have evolved during these relatively quiescent decades into a fatally sophisticated system that depends on stability in the key economic powerhouses. That stability is long gone, and the resets of the Alt-A's and the Option ARMS, beginning in 2009, will finish off what the subprimes kicked off all by their little own selves. Not to mention the coming fiascos in securitized commercial real estate and credit card debt.

Furthermore, the hundreds of trillions (yes, trillions with a "T") in Casino-style Derivatives bets riding on all these bad investments will only serve to supercharge the coming mega-implosion.

Of course, the above factors will not be operating in a vacuum. The reactions by various peoples and governments in response to all this will include national debt defaults, hyperinflationary "counterfeiting", trade barriers, predatory devaluations, riots, martial law and ultimately - big wars.

If we are so lucky as to be able to devolve gradually, peacefully and voluntarily into the descoped economy that Kunstler describes, I will be quite happy to be totally wrong. But I just don't see it happening that way.

We are indeed a cluster-fugued planet.

Nudge

Jim, great post, and thanks for the excellent predictions for the new year.

Having been around CFN awhile, I can only wonder when it's time to cue the inevitable flood of OEOs, Fefe McVeighs, and other assorted Monday-only drive-by posters who try to make a logical connection between the inaccuracy of past predictions and the argument that these predictions must necessarily be bad too. Sigh. Maybe Dale will do the honors this time.

Here's wishing our crew of CFN regulars a safe & sane 2009 if at all possible. :)

dale

Here is a little wisdom to keep in mind for the year ahead:

“You’re neither right nor wrong because other people agree with you. You’re right because your facts are right and your reasoning is right—and that’s the only thing that makes you right. And if your facts and reasoning are right, you don’t have to worry about anybody else.”

----Warren Buffet

Jack Nordby

Hurrah, Jim! This is the best one yet. I'll miss your blog when the power goes out...Jack

theroachman1

Warren Buffet is on his way to failure. His success of the past will not equate to success of the future. He still holds on to the ideas of fiat money and endless supplies of cheap energy.

The Mule

I think Kunstler has a great many important things to say, but every time he comments on events in the Middle East he disappoints. This time he had to try to preempt critics with the antisemitic label. Try as the Israelis might, they cannot make those pesky Palestinians just "go away", so I guess bombing them back to the stone-age will have to do for now.

dale

....and another

Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows that the war is over
Everybody knows the good guys lost
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
That’s how it goes
Everybody knows

Everybody knows that the boat is leaking
Everybody knows that the captain lied
Everybody got this broken feeling
Like their father or their dog just died

-----Leonard Cohen

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