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Rubber Toe

Patz said: "I started out making a small point about a commonly used term that is in fact racist. You guys are just proving that your racial sensitivity or concern is not even skin deep. You don't call people names they don't wish to be called--end of story."

BabyStepper said: "Blacks call each other nigger as a gesture of belonging. Homosexuals call each other queer, queen, butch."

I may drag this into the new discussion, but I would like to comment on the above two statements. I completely disagree with Patz's assertion, especially the part that says "You don't call people names they don't wish to be called--end of story"...

For one thing, this isn't possible to do, and secondly, it starts you going down the path of political correctness and you don't want to start going down that path. An example will show why this is impossible. American Indians, or perhaps Native Americans, choose your term. What if someone from the Navajo tribe didn't like to be called either American Indian or Native American? You would I guess then need to refer to him always as a "Navajo". But what if someone else from a neighboring Navajo tribe found this term insulting, because their tribe was founded earlier then the other, and they looked down on them, so they want to be collectively referred to as "Original Navajo". We don't want to insult anyone, of course, so we call the first tribe Original Navajo. Now it turns out that the "Navaho" first mentioned aren't happy again, cause someone else is being called "Original Navajo" which demeans them cause they are just "Navajo". While this is certainly made up, you get the idea.

Specifically, this doesn't work because it isn't possible to refer to any group by any given "name" cause someone in the group will take offense. And, you can't be expected to poll every member of the group in advance to collectively see if they are in agreement as to what "they" should be collectively "called".

This pigeon-holing of people into groups is what shouldn't be done cause it leads to the problems I mentioned, not to mention most of the violent conflict in the world.

So, I run into a fellow out in the wilds of the North. He introduces himself as Nanook. Maybe I ask him what tribe he belongs to and he says Inuit, so I refer to him as a member of an Inuit tribe after that. Maybe instead I ask him where his other Eskimo friends are living, and he says that he is not an Eskimo, that he considers himself to be an Inuit. Fine, I then refer to him as an Inuit, or whatever he chooses to be called.

There is a good deal to be said for having a bit of a thick skin and not being easily offended, and speaking out about it, rather than trying to walk on egg shells your entire life worrying about whether every word you utter will offend anyone.

BabyStepper raises another good point, and it flows right from the above discussion. Group A doesn't like being called A's by outsiders, as they consider it a slur, so heaver forbid someone ever uses the "A" word in public. Any use of the "A" word in public is frowned upon, even demanding public apologies if it is overheard and reported in the media.

Go to a party however, and the A's are calling each other A's. So apparently the rules concerning use of the A word differ depending on whether you are an A or not an A. This raises the interesting situation where certain people can say certain things based on what race they are or what ethnic or social group they belong to, whereas others are not allowed to say the same thing. So then, whose job is it to determine who is allowed to say exactly what, and in whet situation? I would point out that it is a very small step indeed from restricting what someone can "say" based on their grouping, to what someone is allowed to "do" based on their grouping. Lest you wake up one morning and find out that you have to now drink out of the A drinking fountain.

RT

Rubber Toe

Babystepper said: "On some of the why, I hate, HATE, HAAAAATE it when people use religion or spirituality to back their plays and they are fake. Spirituality is precious to me. I have my own, nothing organized or labelable, but very real, for me. It was hard to find it. There are a lot of seekers out there and false prophets burn folks, and turn them off from the search entirely. Folks will shut down that aspect of their growth assuming it is all mythology and that there is nothing there. Or they follow the false prophet and get burned, misled, exploited."

Truer words were never spoken. As an ex-catholic I can vouch for that :-)

RT

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